1. misandry isn’t real, dudez

    redeyesonblacksails:

    clype:

    riotrite:

    I’m a guy, and I need feminism. Not “men’s rights.” Feminism. Here is why.

    Everything that MRAs talk about that men can’t do or are socially punished for arise directly and immediately from misogyny. Not “misandry.” Misogyny.

    Whether I am expressing my emotions, playing with children, baking, having sex wherein I am penetrated in any way, wearing the wrong color, talking the wrong way, moving the wrong way, being sexually harassed/assaulted, or paying too little attention to looking like I’m not paying attention to how I look, when society punishes me or derides me or marginalizes me for these things, it is happening because they are things women, not men, are expected to do, and our society at large fucking hates women.

    Has that sunk in yet?

    Men, can you even think of a single goddamn way you have ever been mocked that wasn’t related to something that a misogynist society sees as feminizing? Even when large men are mocked for their bodies, they are referred to as having “man-boobs,” for fucks sake.

    How do you expect to improve those things with “men’s rights?” What right are you fighting for? I can tell you what I think you’re fighting for. I think you’re fighting for the right to contain and control misogyny, and direct it back at women, where you think it belongs. You want to maintain your privilege but erase its consequences, and that’s why your movement is farcical; it’s a big fucking feedback loop. How do you expect men to be free from the peripheral effects of misogyny when you refuse to even fucking believe it’s real?

  2. callmecrayola:

    callmecrayola:

  3. Reddit’s “ask a rapist” thread was the last straw for me.

    I deleted my reddit account and I will never be a part of that site again until they get control of the rampant misogyny, rape culture, and general sexism.

  4. You were absolutely 100% in the right for telling him off! Making that kind of comment is completely disrespectful and disgusting! Straight out of the Misogyny 101 text book.

    He should actually be thankful to that you even took the time to explain to him why you were offended. It doesn’t surprise me that he won’t leave you alone now because men who think they are owed sex after a date for “sacrificing” the time and money to be with you are usually the kind of men who don’t respect boundaries and feel entitled to a woman’s time and attention (and oftentimes their body).

    You know, he may not even be a “bad guy” necessarily, but he’s definitely a product of a misogynistic and patriarchal society.

    If you are in any way still romantically interested in the guy and he apologizes and makes it clear that he understands why what he said was problematic, then perhaps this would-be relationship isn’t entirely unsalvageable. It’s hard to know without knowing the guy.

    I know a lot of men, friends and family, who have said really sexist and misogynistic things without realizing the implications. It’s kind of a crapshoot trying to educate people when they say problematic things like that though. You’ll either get a thoughtful response and a reformed misogynist interested in changing his/her behavior or you’ll get, “God, you’re such an oversensitive femi-nazi.”

    I sincerely hope this guy is the former.

    I wish you nothing but luck moving forward with him if that’s your desire, but honestly, if he’s nothing special in the first place (and I don’t get the feeling from your messages that he’s your soulmate or anything) tell him you are not interested in continuing the relationship and that if he continues to harass you, you WILL call the police. That ought’a scare the shit out of him.

    Good luck! I hope this was at least a little bit helpful. Let me know how things go!

    Love,

    Sophie

  5. "

    Here is why I refuse to take rape jokes sitting down…

    Because 6% of college-aged men, slightly over 1 in 20, will admit to raping someone in anonymous surveys, as long as the word “rape” isn’t used in the description of the act—and that’s the conservative estimate. Other sources double that number (pdf).

    A lot of people accuse feminists of thinking that all men are rapists. That’s not true. But do you know who think all men are rapists?

    Rapists do.

    They really do. In psychological study, the profiling, the studies, it comes out again and again.

    Virtually all rapists genuinely believe that all men rape, and other men just keep it hushed up better. And more, these people who really are rapists are constantly reaffirmed in their belief about the rest of mankind being rapists like them by things like rape jokes, that dismiss and normalize the idea of rape.

    If one in twenty guys (or more) is a real and true rapist, and you have any amount of social activity with other guys like yourself, then it is almost a statistical certainty that one time hanging out with friends and their friends, playing Halo with a bunch of guys online, in a WoW guild, in a pick-up game of basketball, at a bar, or elsewhere, you were talking to a rapist. Not your fault. You can’t tell a rapist apart any better than anyone else can. It’s not like they announce themselves.

    But, here’s the thing. It’s very likely that in some of these interactions with these guys, at some point or another, someone told a rape joke. You, decent guy that you are, understood that they didn’t mean it, and it was just a joke. And so you laughed.

    Or maybe you didn’t laugh. Maybe it just wasn’t a very funny joke. So maybe you just didn’t say anything at all.

    And, decent guy who would never condone rape, who would step in and stop rape if he saw it, who understands that rape is awful and wrong and bad, when you laughed? When you were silent?

    That rapist who was in the group with you, that rapist thought that you were on his side. That rapist knew that you were a rapist like him. And he felt validated, and he felt he was among his comrades.

    You. The rapist’s comrade.

    And if that doesn’t make you feel sick to your stomach, if that doesn’t make you want to throw up, if that doesn’t disturb you or bother you or make you feel like maybe you should at least consider not participating in that kind of humor anymore, not abiding it in your presence, not greeting it with silence…

    Well, maybe you aren’t as opposed to rapists as you claim.

    "
    Why Rape Jokes Are Never “Ok”

  6. Would society still be okay with it of Dr. Pepper Ten were marketed like this? Would it still be “just a joke”?

  7. Does anyone else ever get sick of explaining to people how sexism and misogyny still exist in our culture and why it is bad?

    I feel like I reached a crazy-making breaking point tonight after a dude on Facebook told me that the Republican party is not in fact misogynistic or sexist in any way. He also attempted to insult me by insinuating that I had a women’s studies degree (which apparently in his world completely discredits you and your opinions.)

    He keeps egging me on trying to get me to “debate” him, telling me how he’s going to “enlighten me” (all the while spelling every other word incorrectly including my NAME which is at the beginning of every comment I type!).

    Usually I would spend the time lengthily destroying this fellow with overwhelming evidence, logic, and comprehension.

    But what even is the point anymore?

    He’ll just respond like they all do - by remarking on how I’m not in the kitchen, or how I’m a “feminazi”, or telling me to “calm down”.

    I’m losing my will to fight.

    Sometimes it’s very hard to be a part of this world.

  8. "With men, there are some scenarios where it stops mattering how he looks. With women, it always matters. In a comedy movie, the male wacky sidekick can be the chubby Zach Galifianakis or the nearly deformed Steve Buscemi. But if the female wacky sidekick isn’t attractive, like the overweight Melissa McCarthy in Bridesmaids, then every scene needs to be about how ugly and fat and mannish she is. That has to be the core of her character."
    5 Ways Modern Men Are Trained to Hate Women

  9. WORK PLACE ASSHOLE

    Ok, so these two middle aged men who play racquetball just came sauntering up to the desk, which is near the bathrooms.

    One of them (we’ll call him Douchley) was making fun of the other (we’ll call him Nicely) because Nicely was going to use the women’s bathroom, because there are only two bathrooms and one was occupied.

    There is literally nothing different about these bathrooms on the inside. The only thing that distinguishes them from each other is the signs denoting gender on the outside. They are single-room unisex bathrooms for all intents and purposes.

    So anyway Douchley was first calling this guy a fag and then he turns to me and says, “Hey, make fun of him when he comes out of the ladies room.”

    And I said, “Why? Because he’s more secure in his sexuality and masculinity than you?” And then Douchley kind of chuckled and looked red in the face.

    And then Nicely came out of the bathroom and was looking in his bag for his keys and Douchley says, “What’s the matter? Can’t find you TAMPON? You’re such a girl.”

    And I looked at him with the steeliest glare I could muster and said, “Do you have a problem with women?”

    And the dude just laughed and walked out and Nicely looked kind of ashamed and told me to have a good night and left behind Douchley.

    I’m just so stunned that full grown adult men still act like this sometimes. Like honestly, would he go up to a person of color and make a crass race joke? Probably not. But he definitely thinks it’s okay to make demeaning, misogynistic jokes about women in front of me and just in general.

    Ugh.

  11. Guys, when are we going to be done with all this internalized sexism? I can’t stand “jokes” about how all women are catty, vain, irrational bitches who hate each other. They aren’t funny. They serve only to perpetuate sexist and misogynistic stereotypes that hold women down. Can we please just stop?

    Guys, when are we going to be done with all this internalized sexism?

    I can’t stand “jokes” about how all women are catty, vain, irrational bitches who hate each other. They aren’t funny. They serve only to perpetuate sexist and misogynistic stereotypes that hold women down.

    Can we please just stop?

  12. longnecks:twofish: I condensed this for the sake of the readers, so if anyone wants the original context click here.I said the women that date him know what they’re getting into before hand. Not many women have the opportunity to know they’re about to date a complete attention seeking, abusive piece of shit. So yes, they do put themselves in a situation. BOOM, ROASTED.Putting down a stranger is so easy to do, congrats woman. You most certainly implied that women are always being victimized. Charlie Sheen is not prized, this whole argument is getting out of control and you are just giving him more attention than he deserves don’t you think? Whether it be talking poorly about the man or not, you’re still giving him attention aren’t you? Completely against your original opinions….BOOM, ROASTED.Yes, I am new to the internet. I was born yesterday. A newborn woman-hater idiot! Did you know that domestic abuse in Wisconsin alone nearly doubles when the Packers lose?  No ones patting Sheen on the back saying, keep up the abuse man!….Were you mad when Michael Vick got charged for animal abuse…but then was allowed to play football again?! Yes, society is fucked up…what are you doing about it besides bitching to the wrong people? Want a change? Make it happen! Are YOU knew on here? BOOM, ROASTED.Cool your jets maaan…was said in a nice way of saying relax. It’s rude to say ‘fuck you’ to people you don’t know and then snap on them for something they even apologized for. FUCK this went from Charlie Sheen to RAPE. Is this real life??  You don’t like my opinions, I know you are, but what am I? Look kiddo, I agreed with most of what you said. But apparently you’ve had a rough day or something in your brain snapped because you’re taking out a lot of aggression on someone you don’t know. And I never said FEMI-NAZI, but yeah, you’re being oversensitive. I’m such a woman-hating idiot though, so I guess I’ll just go with… you’re on the rag, aren’t ya? I understand my culture, and you should do the same. Relax about Charlie Sheen. Stand up for your ideas involving womans rights outside of tumblr arguments and maybe you’ll get somewhere. Listen, you are being willfully ignorant and there’s not much more I can do to help you if that’s your choice. I’m going to guess based on your spelling and grammar and failures in basic logic, that maybe this format isn’t the best one for you in terms of debate, and maybe in real life there is some eloquence to your misogynistic arguments that I’m missing. I don’t know. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. So I’ll just so a few closing remarks as a final attempt for you to understand what I’m saying, and then I’m not addressing this anymore. If willfully ignorant is how you choose to be then there is no amount of rational thought that will help you. I implied that lots of women are always being victimized because lots of women are always being victimized. It’s part of living in a (oftentimes violent) patriarchy. What I did not imply was that all women are victims, or that all women are helpless against their abusers. Charlie Sheen is prized. I just don’t….I don’t understand how you could think otherwise. Why else would we even being talking about him? Do you not understand the massive celebrity he’s created for himself? He’s a fucking national treasure. A joke, but a national treasure. He prized in the way that we value his ability to entertain us more than we are outraged by his violence against women (amongst other crimes). He has been on countless television programs, people are buying tickets to see him live, he’s getting random people all over the country to use his catch phrases, he is his own freaking meme. Yes, I was upset when Michael Vick was charged with animal abuse but allowed to continue his football career. It’s disgusting….but has absolutely no point in the context of this argument. I understand you are trying to make some point about our society being an unjust and chaotic place, but I think it’s clear that I have a much deeper understanding of the various layers of our society than you do. We connected the issues with Charlie Sheen and his tendencies towards the abuse of women with rape because the two cultures are very linked. Abuse culture is one smaller facet of the larger rape culture that we live in. When I say rape culture I’m not just including clear-cut rape. I’m including most violent crimes against women that stem from misogyny. They are like branches on the larger tree that is rape culture. Keep up, please. The problem with telling feminists who stand up for the cause that they must just be having a rough day or are oversensitive or are “on the rag” (OMG, you’re so goddamn funny. Everyone give her a round of applause! And no, I know, I know you were being sarcastic and that means it’s not offensive, right?) is that it completely diminishes the cause itself. When I stand up passionately for something I believe in it is completely belittling for someone to imply it’s simply because I’m on my period or am just having a bad day. That’s a construct of the patriarchy, and it’s getting clearer and clearer you have absolutely zero clue as to how much you’ve been controlled by it. I think it would be lost on you if I explained why sexist jokes were really damaging, so I’ll save it for now, because it would be another long argument. Lastly, I’m really glad you brought up the idea of doing something outside of engaging in online arguments about misogyny and the like. It’s something we need more of, and it’s funny to me that you accuse me of doing nothing but arguing on the internet when you know nothing about my life. I’m not just some internet feminist who does nothing but pick fights on Tumblr. This isn’t my secret online identity. I’m a feminist. Period. I live my life by those ideals and I do far more than argue with people online to promote feminism in the world. What I think is also important to note is that arguing with people you don’t know online is a good thing. You say I’m arguing with the wrong person, but you’re uninformed and spouting off misogynistic ideas without understanding it’s implications, so I’d say trying to inform you is a pretty worthy cause. Trying to spread information in the face of ignorance is worth something, whether it’s with a close friend in person or a stranger on the internet. I think honestly what has made me the most sad about this is that you are a woman. Women who feed into the misogynistic culture created for them by men to me are much sadder than male misogynists. Don’t you understand that you are subscribing to the very ideas which oppress you?

    longnecks:twofish:

    I condensed this for the sake of the readers, so if anyone wants the original context click here.
    I said the women that date him know what they’re getting into before hand. Not many women have the opportunity to know they’re about to date a complete attention seeking, abusive piece of shit. So yes, they do put themselves in a situation. BOOM, ROASTED.
    Putting down a stranger is so easy to do, congrats woman. You most certainly implied that women are always being victimized. Charlie Sheen is not prized, this whole argument is getting out of control and you are just giving him more attention than he deserves don’t you think? Whether it be talking poorly about the man or not, you’re still giving him attention aren’t you? Completely against your original opinions….BOOM, ROASTED.
    Yes, I am new to the internet. I was born yesterday. A newborn woman-hater idiot! Did you know that domestic abuse in Wisconsin alone nearly doubles when the Packers lose?  No ones patting Sheen on the back saying, keep up the abuse man!….Were you mad when Michael Vick got charged for animal abuse…but then was allowed to play football again?! Yes, society is fucked up…what are you doing about it besides bitching to the wrong people? Want a change? Make it happen! Are YOU knew on here? BOOM, ROASTED.
    Cool your jets maaan…was said in a nice way of saying relax. It’s rude to say ‘fuck you’ to people you don’t know and then snap on them for something they even apologized for. FUCK this went from Charlie Sheen to RAPE. Is this real life?? 
    You don’t like my opinions, I know you are, but what am I? Look kiddo, I agreed with most of what you said. But apparently you’ve had a rough day or something in your brain snapped because you’re taking out a lot of aggression on someone you don’t know. And I never said FEMI-NAZI, but yeah, you’re being oversensitive. I’m such a woman-hating idiot though, so I guess I’ll just go with… you’re on the rag, aren’t ya?
    I understand my culture, and you should do the same. Relax about Charlie Sheen. Stand up for your ideas involving womans rights outside of tumblr arguments and maybe you’ll get somewhere.

    Listen, you are being willfully ignorant and there’s not much more I can do to help you if that’s your choice. I’m going to guess based on your spelling and grammar and failures in basic logic, that maybe this format isn’t the best one for you in terms of debate, and maybe in real life there is some eloquence to your misogynistic arguments that I’m missing. I don’t know. I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

    So I’ll just so a few closing remarks as a final attempt for you to understand what I’m saying, and then I’m not addressing this anymore. If willfully ignorant is how you choose to be then there is no amount of rational thought that will help you.

    1. I implied that lots of women are always being victimized because lots of women are always being victimized. It’s part of living in a (oftentimes violent) patriarchy. What I did not imply was that all women are victims, or that all women are helpless against their abusers.
    2. Charlie Sheen is prized. I just don’t….I don’t understand how you could think otherwise. Why else would we even being talking about him? Do you not understand the massive celebrity he’s created for himself? He’s a fucking national treasure. A joke, but a national treasure. He prized in the way that we value his ability to entertain us more than we are outraged by his violence against women (amongst other crimes). He has been on countless television programs, people are buying tickets to see him live, he’s getting random people all over the country to use his catch phrases, he is his own freaking meme.
    3. Yes, I was upset when Michael Vick was charged with animal abuse but allowed to continue his football career. It’s disgusting….but has absolutely no point in the context of this argument. I understand you are trying to make some point about our society being an unjust and chaotic place, but I think it’s clear that I have a much deeper understanding of the various layers of our society than you do.
    4. We connected the issues with Charlie Sheen and his tendencies towards the abuse of women with rape because the two cultures are very linked. Abuse culture is one smaller facet of the larger rape culture that we live in. When I say rape culture I’m not just including clear-cut rape. I’m including most violent crimes against women that stem from misogyny. They are like branches on the larger tree that is rape culture. Keep up, please.
    5. The problem with telling feminists who stand up for the cause that they must just be having a rough day or are oversensitive or are “on the rag” (OMG, you’re so goddamn funny. Everyone give her a round of applause! And no, I know, I know you were being sarcastic and that means it’s not offensive, right?) is that it completely diminishes the cause itself. When I stand up passionately for something I believe in it is completely belittling for someone to imply it’s simply because I’m on my period or am just having a bad day. That’s a construct of the patriarchy, and it’s getting clearer and clearer you have absolutely zero clue as to how much you’ve been controlled by it. I think it would be lost on you if I explained why sexist jokes were really damaging, so I’ll save it for now, because it would be another long argument.
    6. Lastly, I’m really glad you brought up the idea of doing something outside of engaging in online arguments about misogyny and the like. It’s something we need more of, and it’s funny to me that you accuse me of doing nothing but arguing on the internet when you know nothing about my life. I’m not just some internet feminist who does nothing but pick fights on Tumblr. This isn’t my secret online identity. I’m a feminist. Period. I live my life by those ideals and I do far more than argue with people online to promote feminism in the world. What I think is also important to note is that arguing with people you don’t know online is a good thing. You say I’m arguing with the wrong person, but you’re uninformed and spouting off misogynistic ideas without understanding it’s implications, so I’d say trying to inform you is a pretty worthy cause. Trying to spread information in the face of ignorance is worth something, whether it’s with a close friend in person or a stranger on the internet.

    I think honestly what has made me the most sad about this is that you are a woman. Women who feed into the misogynistic culture created for them by men to me are much sadder than male misogynists.

    Don’t you understand that you are subscribing to the very ideas which oppress you?

  13. longnecks:twofish: This is going to be rather choppy because I have to get to work. HOWEVER:“The thing is you ARE encouraging him by using the phrase “winning”, you and thousands of other people. You’re trying to emulate a man by using his catch phrases, and that encourages him. You and people like you who are amused by him, who are watching his interviews, who are buying tickets to his tours, who are using his catch phrases ARE encouraging him.”Not buying tickets to shows, not watching interviews, not following on twitter, not photoshopping me with charlie sheen enjoying the sunset together. Relax. “Wow, victim blaming. God forbid you ever are in an abusive relationship and somebody tells you it’s your fault for not seeing the signs. If I enter a room with a known rapist do I deserve to get raped? Do I not deserve justice, sensitivity, and understanding if I am, just because I knew he was a rapist?”I knew that would upset you when I wrote that. Of course you would take it the wrong way.  Can YOU not tell that the man is a nutcase? Would YOU date him after seeing all of this bullshit in the media? I’d like to think you’re smarter than that.  You are a mess. God not every woman is a fucking victim. EVERYONE gets victimized. You’re making it look like women are poor helpless creatures that suffer the most horrible circumstances because they are always the victim. They don’t put themselves in situations they can’t get out of, they just get lured into them.  If you went into a room with a known rapist do you deserve to get raped? DUMB question. Answer:NO. BUT the fact that you know you’re in the room with one might cause you to act differently, would you not?? Would you enter the room alone? Would you dress differently? Yes, yes all women in abusive relationships that continue to stay in them are asking for it. Are you kidding me? Thats a sick idea if I’ve ever heard one.  You really have a nice way of spinning peoples words around. Maybe you’re just better at taking things way too seriously.  How was saying ‘cool your jets maannn’ offensive? This conversation is getting rather humorous considering it started because you got upset at a funny comment. There are feminists and there are crazy ass over the top man hating/world hating feminists who think that EVERYONE is out to get them, challenge and argue them. You don’t have to prove anything to me (someone you dont know) by saying I am a “woman-hating idiot” What good is that doing? Do you feel satisfied in saying such?.  So. Just so everyone knows, I’m not a woman-hating idiot. I’m not a man-hating idiot. I’m not an idiot. I think that Charlie Sheen is a dumb ass and don’t agree with what he’s done in the past (an continues to do).  I don’t think that physical or verbal abuse is funny, or that anyone ‘deserves’ that. I condensed this for the sake of the readers, so if anyone wants the original context click here. “Not buying tickets to shows, not watching interviews, not following on twitter, not photoshopping me with charlie sheen enjoying the sunset together. Relax.” Please read more carefully. I did not say you were doing all of these things. I equated your use of his catch phrase to the many other ways in which people are enabling him (i.e. watching his interviews, going to his shows). “I knew that would upset you when I wrote that. Of course you would take it the wrong way.  Can YOU not tell that the man is a nutcase? Would YOU date him after seeing all of this bullshit in the media? I’d like to think you’re smarter than that.  You are a mess. God not every woman is a fucking victim. EVERYONE gets victimized. You’re making it look like women are poor helpless creatures that suffer the most horrible circumstances because they are always the victim.” How could I possibly take it the wrong way? You said specifically that the women who date Charlie Sheen put themselves in a position to be abused. While that in itself is a problem for me, the bigger problem here is that you imply that these women deserve the crime to be taken less seriously because they “put themselves in the situation”. I understand that you’ve been pretty much bombarded by patriarchal culture since the moment your parents found out you were going to be girl. But try a little harder now. Truth: I would not, assuming I had all the necessary evidence, be likely to date a known abuser of women. BUT that is beside the point entirely. It doesn’t matter if the man walked around screaming “I WILL HIT EVERY WOMAN THAT DATES ME”.  That does not diminish the crime when he does end up abusing a woman. That doesn’t mean any woman who dates him and is abused should be treated any less than a victim of a violent crime.  I never said that all women were victims. I am saying that victims are victims, and that the perpetrators of this kind of violence shouldn’t be idolized, praised, and emulated. And yes of course, EVERYONE can be a victim. Jesus, are you new here?  Domestic abuse is overwhelmingly perpetrated by men against women and the roots of this behavior are almost always internalized misogyny. The internalized misogyny is cultivated by cultural figureheads like Charlie Sheen and his success in the public eye as a known abuser of women. Women are not poor, helpless creatures but culturally we are made to believe that we are, and men are made to believe that we are too, which creates a cycle of violence based on the idea that women are weak, should submit, and are public property. Just because you and I know that women are not poor, helpless creatures doesn’t make the cultural dictate that we are any less prevalent, and it doesn’t make women who are abused any less deserving of sensitivity and justice. If you went into a room with a known rapist do you deserve to get raped? DUMB question. Answer:NO. BUT the fact that you know you’re in the room with one might cause you to act differently, would you not?? Would you enter the room alone? Would you dress differently? Again, I feel like you’re having a hard time understanding this. It’s not about whether or not I would dress different or act differently if I was in a room with a known racist. It is about the social constructs that lead us to an argument wherein we discuss how I would act or dress in front of a rapist. In this society we teach women how to not be victims, but we don’t teach men how to not be abusers. The point here is that emulating and idolizing a man like Charlie Sheen and bolstering him in the public eye as some kind of warped celebrity is a part of what makes abuse/rape culture. It’s not about what I would wear in the room with the rapist. It’s about whether or not the rapist was taught by society that it was okay to rape me. “How was saying ‘cool your jets maannn’ offensive” It’s offensive because it implies that I should calm down about something that is a big issue. “This conversation is getting rather humorous considering it started because you got upset at a funny comment. There are feminists and there are crazy ass over the top man hating/world hating feminists who think that EVERYONE is out to get them, challenge and argue them.” Your comment wasn’t funny. It was dismissive. And now you’re moving to the oldest trick in the book. You don’t like my opinions, you don’t want to listen to reason or logic or examine your worldview, so you’re moving onto the old “FEMI-NAZI! MAN HATER! YOU’RE BEING OVERSENSITIVE/LIKE BEING OFFENDED/TAKE EVERYTHING TOO SERIOUSLY” argument, which is at least three different kinds of derailment. It’s the last bastion of the misogynist, because it’s easier to call me a man-hating crazy person, then have to admit that your argument is based on misogyny and a non-understanding of your culture.

    longnecks:twofish:

    This is going to be rather choppy because I have to get to work. HOWEVER:
    “The thing is you ARE encouraging him by using the phrase “winning”, you and thousands of other people. You’re trying to emulate a man by using his catch phrases, and that encourages him. You and people like you who are amused by him, who are watching his interviews, who are buying tickets to his tours, who are using his catch phrases ARE encouraging him.”
    Not buying tickets to shows, not watching interviews, not following on twitter, not photoshopping me with charlie sheen enjoying the sunset together. Relax.
    “Wow, victim blaming. God forbid you ever are in an abusive relationship and somebody tells you it’s your fault for not seeing the signs. If I enter a room with a known rapist do I deserve to get raped? Do I not deserve justice, sensitivity, and understanding if I am, just because I knew he was a rapist?”
    I knew that would upset you when I wrote that. Of course you would take it the wrong way.  Can YOU not tell that the man is a nutcase? Would YOU date him after seeing all of this bullshit in the media? I’d like to think you’re smarter than that.  You are a mess. God not every woman is a fucking victim. EVERYONE gets victimized. You’re making it look like women are poor helpless creatures that suffer the most horrible circumstances because they are always the victim. They don’t put themselves in situations they can’t get out of, they just get lured into them.  If you went into a room with a known rapist do you deserve to get raped?
     DUMB question.
    Answer:NO.
    BUT the fact that you know you’re in the room with one might cause you to act differently, would you not?? Would you enter the room alone? Would you dress differently?
    Yes, yes all women in abusive relationships that continue to stay in them are asking for it. Are you kidding me? Thats a sick idea if I’ve ever heard one.  You really have a nice way of spinning peoples words around. Maybe you’re just better at taking things way too seriously.  How was saying ‘cool your jets maannn’ offensive? This conversation is getting rather humorous considering it started because you got upset at a funny comment. There are feminists and there are crazy ass over the top man hating/world hating feminists who think that EVERYONE is out to get them, challenge and argue them. You don’t have to prove anything to me (someone you dont know) by saying I am a “woman-hating idiot” What good is that doing? Do you feel satisfied in saying such?. 
    So. Just so everyone knows, I’m not a woman-hating idiot. I’m not a man-hating idiot. I’m not an idiot. I think that Charlie Sheen is a dumb ass and don’t agree with what he’s done in the past (an continues to do).  I don’t think that physical or verbal abuse is funny, or that anyone ‘deserves’ that.

    I condensed this for the sake of the readers, so if anyone wants the original context click here.

    “Not buying tickets to shows, not watching interviews, not following on twitter, not photoshopping me with charlie sheen enjoying the sunset together. Relax.”

    Please read more carefully. I did not say you were doing all of these things. I equated your use of his catch phrase to the many other ways in which people are enabling him (i.e. watching his interviews, going to his shows).

    “I knew that would upset you when I wrote that. Of course you would take it the wrong way.  Can YOU not tell that the man is a nutcase? Would YOU date him after seeing all of this bullshit in the media? I’d like to think you’re smarter than that.  You are a mess. God not every woman is a fucking victim. EVERYONE gets victimized. You’re making it look like women are poor helpless creatures that suffer the most horrible circumstances because they are always the victim.”

    How could I possibly take it the wrong way? You said specifically that the women who date Charlie Sheen put themselves in a position to be abused. While that in itself is a problem for me, the bigger problem here is that you imply that these women deserve the crime to be taken less seriously because they “put themselves in the situation”.

    I understand that you’ve been pretty much bombarded by patriarchal culture since the moment your parents found out you were going to be girl. But try a little harder now.

    Truth: I would not, assuming I had all the necessary evidence, be likely to date a known abuser of women. BUT that is beside the point entirely. It doesn’t matter if the man walked around screaming “I WILL HIT EVERY WOMAN THAT DATES ME”.  That does not diminish the crime when he does end up abusing a woman. That doesn’t mean any woman who dates him and is abused should be treated any less than a victim of a violent crime. 

    I never said that all women were victims. I am saying that victims are victims, and that the perpetrators of this kind of violence shouldn’t be idolized, praised, and emulated.

    And yes of course, EVERYONE can be a victim. Jesus, are you new here?  Domestic abuse is overwhelmingly perpetrated by men against women and the roots of this behavior are almost always internalized misogyny. The internalized misogyny is cultivated by cultural figureheads like Charlie Sheen and his success in the public eye as a known abuser of women.

    Women are not poor, helpless creatures but culturally we are made to believe that we are, and men are made to believe that we are too, which creates a cycle of violence based on the idea that women are weak, should submit, and are public property.

    Just because you and I know that women are not poor, helpless creatures doesn’t make the cultural dictate that we are any less prevalent, and it doesn’t make women who are abused any less deserving of sensitivity and justice.

    If you went into a room with a known rapist do you deserve to get raped?
     DUMB question.
    Answer:NO.
    BUT the fact that you know you’re in the room with one might cause you to act differently, would you not?? Would you enter the room alone? Would you dress differently?

    Again, I feel like you’re having a hard time understanding this. It’s not about whether or not I would dress different or act differently if I was in a room with a known racist. It is about the social constructs that lead us to an argument wherein we discuss how I would act or dress in front of a rapist.

    In this society we teach women how to not be victims, but we don’t teach men how to not be abusers.

    The point here is that emulating and idolizing a man like Charlie Sheen and bolstering him in the public eye as some kind of warped celebrity is a part of what makes abuse/rape culture.

    It’s not about what I would wear in the room with the rapist. It’s about whether or not the rapist was taught by society that it was okay to rape me.

    “How was saying ‘cool your jets maannn’ offensive”

    It’s offensive because it implies that I should calm down about something that is a big issue.

    “This conversation is getting rather humorous considering it started because you got upset at a funny comment. There are feminists and there are crazy ass over the top man hating/world hating feminists who think that EVERYONE is out to get them, challenge and argue them.”

    Your comment wasn’t funny. It was dismissive.

    And now you’re moving to the oldest trick in the book. You don’t like my opinions, you don’t want to listen to reason or logic or examine your worldview, so you’re moving onto the old “FEMI-NAZI! MAN HATER! YOU’RE BEING OVERSENSITIVE/LIKE BEING OFFENDED/TAKE EVERYTHING TOO SERIOUSLY” argument, which is at least three different kinds of derailment.

    It’s the last bastion of the misogynist, because it’s easier to call me a man-hating crazy person, then have to admit that your argument is based on misogyny and a non-understanding of your culture.

  14. longnecks: twofish: I’m sorry, but no. Fuck you very much. There are not enough people who are outraged by this criminal, drug-addled, maniac misogynist and the massive wealth and following he has gained by being nothing more than a criminal, drug-addled, maniac misogynist. But he’s excused because he’s a white male who entertains droves of people (who are completely devoid of any actual sense of humor) with his antics. Boys will be boys, right? Don’t tell me to cool my jets, don’t tell me to calm down, because most people are calm all the time. Most people don’t give a shit. Most people are like you, fucking prancing through life and telling people who actually stand for something to “cool their jets”.  And it’s people like me who DO give a shit about injustice, about misogyny, about sexism, about disgusting fucking cultural cancers like Charlie Sheen that actually keep the world from being a completely abhorrent place. Fucking educate yourself. If you don’t understand what the problem is with fucking Charlie Sheen and the culture surrounding him then you’re not paying close enough attention. Woah woah woah……woah. ‘fuck you very much’, great Lily Allen song, but you were just being rude and not referencing her at all.  Now where did I ever say I wasn’t outraged by Charlie Sheen? Just because I was using the phrase ‘winning’? I’m not encouraging the man, I’m not following him on Twitter, so what’s the big deal?  Do I agree with his acts of violence towards women? Absolutely not! I feel horrible for the women that put themselves in a position to be abused by someone who is KNOWN for treating women horribly. Yes, I said they put themselves in the position to be abused, and it’s true. Maybe you should tell those women to ‘fucking educate themselves’ and they wouldn’t have locked themselves in the bathrooms of hotels, been abused or scared for their lives in the first place. I think you’d have to be fucking nuts to date Charlie Sheen and put up with all of his bullshit all the time. Clearly they’re doing it for money, because no one with a brain would do that because they actually think hes a decent guy. Unless you’re one of those girls that thinks that maybe they can change him for the better. As far as the violence goes, I don’t think he’s excused of acting this way just because he’s a ‘white mail who entertains droves of people’. Trying to hint at me thinking that Charlie Sheen isn’t in the wrong with your sarcastic statement about ‘Boys will be boys’ is ridiculous. I think you’re preaching your opinion to the wrong person. I do regret saying ‘cool your jets maannn’  because you didnt’ seem to catch the sarcasm whatsoever ..perhaps I should have used a winking emoticon? However, you went a little over board with your response, you didn’t need to act like I said:     ‘Fuck you, you’re wrong, Charlie Sheen is awesome and hilarious. He’s not in the wrong at all, and everyone should start acting like that. Its okay that he treats women the way he does because honestly, who gives a fuck? ALL HAIL CHARLIE SHEEN’ The problem with the internet is that some people do not take sarcasm very well because they can’t read that well into it. This, being an example.  For the record, I don’t ‘prance through life’ and tell people who believe in something to ‘cool their jets’…good god this is a ridiculous argument about Charlie fucking Sheen here. Plus, this little stunt he’s doing right now is all an act and everyone thats buying is getting taken for a ride. Wow, how many kinds of sexism and derailment did we have in this doozy? I’m just going to break some of this down for ya’ll (longneck’s responses in italics, mine in bold): “Now where did I ever say I wasn’t outraged by Charlie Sheen? Just because I was using the phrase ‘winning’? I’m not encouraging the man, I’m not following him on Twitter, so what’s the big deal?” The thing is you ARE encouraging him by using the phrase “winning”, you and thousands of other people. You’re trying to emulate a man by using his catch phrases, and that encourages him. You and people like you who are amused by him, who are watching his interviews, who are buying tickets to his tours, who are using his catch phrases ARE encouraging him. “Do I agree with his acts of violence towards women? Absolutely not! I feel horrible for the women that put themselves in a position to be abused by someone who is KNOWN for treating women horribly. Yes, I said they put themselves in the position to be abused, and it’s true.” Wow, victim blaming. God forbid you ever are in an abusive relationship and somebody tells you it’s your fault for not seeing the signs. If I enter a room with a known rapist do I deserve to get raped? Do I not deserve justice, sensitivity, and understanding if I am, just because I knew he was a rapist? Women don’t put themselves in positions to be victimized, PEOPLE VICTIMIZE THEM. This just reeks of abuse and rape culture, and you’re a truly fucking disgusting human being if you think that people who are being abused, even by a known abuser, means that we should take the abuse less seriously. “Clearly they’re doing it for money, because no one with a brain would do that because they actually think hes a decent guy.” So at this point you’re basically just calling anyone who dates Charlie Sheen a dumb, gold-digging crazy person who deserved the violence perpetrated against them because I mean, c’mon they were dating a known abuser! They were begging to get hit! I do regret saying ‘cool your jets maannn’  because you didnt’ seem to catch the sarcasm whatsoever ..perhaps I should have used a winking emoticon? No, the winking emoticon wouldn’t have helped. And you obviously have no concept of sarcasm. You can’t just say something offensive, get called out on it, and then say, “Oh you didn’t get the joke. You didn’t get my ‘sarcasm’.” That’s not an argument, it serves no purpose in this conversation. It’s called derailment, and I suggest you read this article because you’ve used about 5 or 6 of these methods in your response. “The problem with the internet is that some people do not take sarcasm very well because they can’t read that well into it. This, being an example.  For the record, I don’t ‘prance through life’ and tell people who believe in something to ‘cool their jets’…good god this is a ridiculous argument about Charlie fucking Sheen here. Plus, this little stunt he’s doing right now is all an act and everyone thats buying is getting taken for a ride.” Again, derailment. Google sarcasm, girl. Learn what it actually means. Everything offensive or dismissive does not qualify as sarcasm. And again, more derailment here. ~Oh man oh man, it’s just the internet, it’s Charlie Sheen, I can’t believe you’re arguing about something so unimportant. This is important. And like I said, it’s people like you that make people like me a valuable resource because I clearly understand why it is important, while you fight tooth and nail against logic and decency right alongside the patriarchy.  I would think a little bit harder before you speak next time, you woman-hating idiot.

    longnecks:

    twofish:

    I’m sorry, but no. Fuck you very much.

    There are not enough people who are outraged by this criminal, drug-addled, maniac misogynist and the massive wealth and following he has gained by being nothing more than a criminal, drug-addled, maniac misogynist.

    But he’s excused because he’s a white male who entertains droves of people (who are completely devoid of any actual sense of humor) with his antics. Boys will be boys, right?

    Don’t tell me to cool my jets, don’t tell me to calm down, because most people are calm all the time. Most people don’t give a shit. Most people are like you, fucking prancing through life and telling people who actually stand for something to “cool their jets”. 

    And it’s people like me who DO give a shit about injustice, about misogyny, about sexism, about disgusting fucking cultural cancers like Charlie Sheen that actually keep the world from being a completely abhorrent place.

    Fucking educate yourself. If you don’t understand what the problem is with fucking Charlie Sheen and the culture surrounding him then you’re not paying close enough attention.

    Woah woah woah……woah.


    ‘fuck you very much’, great Lily Allen song, but you were just being rude and not referencing her at all.  Now where did I ever say I wasn’t outraged by Charlie Sheen? Just because I was using the phrase ‘winning’? I’m not encouraging the man, I’m not following him on Twitter, so what’s the big deal? 
    Do I agree with his acts of violence towards women? Absolutely not! I feel horrible for the women that put themselves in a position to be abused by someone who is KNOWN for treating women horribly. Yes, I said they put themselves in the position to be abused, and it’s true. Maybe you should tell those women to ‘fucking educate themselves’ and they wouldn’t have locked themselves in the bathrooms of hotels, been abused or scared for their lives in the first place. I think you’d have to be fucking nuts to date Charlie Sheen and put up with all of his bullshit all the time. Clearly they’re doing it for money, because no one with a brain would do that because they actually think hes a decent guy. Unless you’re one of those girls that thinks that maybe they can change him for the better.
     As far as the violence goes, I don’t think he’s excused of acting this way just because he’s a ‘white mail who entertains droves of people’. Trying to hint at me thinking that Charlie Sheen isn’t in the wrong with your sarcastic statement about ‘Boys will be boys’ is ridiculous. I think you’re preaching your opinion to the wrong person.

    I do regret saying ‘cool your jets maannn’  because you didnt’ seem to catch the sarcasm whatsoever ..perhaps I should have used a winking emoticon? However, you went a little over board with your response, you didn’t need to act like I said:

        ‘Fuck you, you’re wrong, Charlie Sheen is awesome and hilarious. He’s not in the wrong at all, and everyone should start acting like that. Its okay that he treats women the way he does because honestly, who gives a fuck? ALL HAIL CHARLIE SHEEN’


    The problem with the internet is that some people do not take sarcasm very well because they can’t read that well into it. This, being an example. 
    For the record, I don’t ‘prance through life’ and tell people who believe in something to ‘cool their jets’…good god this is a ridiculous argument about Charlie fucking Sheen here. Plus, this little stunt he’s doing right now is all an act and everyone thats buying is getting taken for a ride.

    Wow, how many kinds of sexism and derailment did we have in this doozy? I’m just going to break some of this down for ya’ll (longneck’s responses in italics, mine in bold):

    “Now where did I ever say I wasn’t outraged by Charlie Sheen? Just because I was using the phrase ‘winning’? I’m not encouraging the man, I’m not following him on Twitter, so what’s the big deal?”

    The thing is you ARE encouraging him by using the phrase “winning”, you and thousands of other people. You’re trying to emulate a man by using his catch phrases, and that encourages him. You and people like you who are amused by him, who are watching his interviews, who are buying tickets to his tours, who are using his catch phrases ARE encouraging him.

    “Do I agree with his acts of violence towards women? Absolutely not! I feel horrible for the women that put themselves in a position to be abused by someone who is KNOWN for treating women horribly. Yes, I said they put themselves in the position to be abused, and it’s true.”

    Wow, victim blaming. God forbid you ever are in an abusive relationship and somebody tells you it’s your fault for not seeing the signs. If I enter a room with a known rapist do I deserve to get raped? Do I not deserve justice, sensitivity, and understanding if I am, just because I knew he was a rapist?

    Women don’t put themselves in positions to be victimized, PEOPLE VICTIMIZE THEM. This just reeks of abuse and rape culture, and you’re a truly fucking disgusting human being if you think that people who are being abused, even by a known abuser, means that we should take the abuse less seriously.

    “Clearly they’re doing it for money, because no one with a brain would do that because they actually think hes a decent guy.”

    So at this point you’re basically just calling anyone who dates Charlie Sheen a dumb, gold-digging crazy person who deserved the violence perpetrated against them because I mean, c’mon they were dating a known abuser! They were begging to get hit!

    I do regret saying ‘cool your jets maannn’  because you didnt’ seem to catch the sarcasm whatsoever ..perhaps I should have used a winking emoticon?

    No, the winking emoticon wouldn’t have helped. And you obviously have no concept of sarcasm. You can’t just say something offensive, get called out on it, and then say, “Oh you didn’t get the joke. You didn’t get my ‘sarcasm’.” That’s not an argument, it serves no purpose in this conversation. It’s called derailment, and I suggest you read this article because you’ve used about 5 or 6 of these methods in your response.

    “The problem with the internet is that some people do not take sarcasm very well because they can’t read that well into it. This, being an example. 
    For the record, I don’t ‘prance through life’ and tell people who believe in something to ‘cool their jets’…good god this is a ridiculous argument about Charlie fucking Sheen here. Plus, this little stunt he’s doing right now is all an act and everyone thats buying is getting taken for a ride.”

    Again, derailment. Google sarcasm, girl. Learn what it actually means. Everything offensive or dismissive does not qualify as sarcasm.

    And again, more derailment here. ~Oh man oh man, it’s just the internet, it’s Charlie Sheen, I can’t believe you’re arguing about something so unimportant.

    This is important. And like I said, it’s people like you that make people like me a valuable resource because I clearly understand why it is important, while you fight tooth and nail against logic and decency right alongside the patriarchy. 

    I would think a little bit harder before you speak next time, you woman-hating idiot.

About me

I am Sophie.

no small caterpillar, go congratulate her

moi

***********

epic adventure
catch 'em all
no room left in hell
coloring book

Real Time Web Analytics Real Time Web Analytics